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Member
Posts: 3,181
Registered: ‎02-24-2013
0

Re: Competitive Warzone changes


DehMuffinMan wrote:

Jeroen_R wrote:

Keep it coming guys, I have a general idea on your feedback and will talk to the team about the stuff you are suggesting.

I will update you guys when I know more on this.

 

Just to give you a headsup about the Automata kills, the impact they have on the battlefield is really small. 

 

It would be great if you can set up some matches so everybody can jump on to get  match going. We could put up a pin for that Warzone, but I just want to be sure that everyone is on board.

 

Also I heard  that some competitive players don't want to play due to stat tracking. Any comments on that?

 

Cheers!


Jereon i think they are small bc most of the community atleast from what ive seen just likes to run around with speed boost and use the scout class over putting down a turret correctly to get lots of kills, and also most of the players do not know how to place a turret correctly 


Lol....other players are idiots...and hence the stats do not reflect what iD want....maybe you the best ever and greatest team of human beings ever assembled, could make a few simple how to video's assuming players know how to watch a video on youtube without falling off a chair....though it might distract from all your mutual stroking of each others manly ego's....

 

See I seriously thought you placed turrets facing the nearest wall or throw the air droid calls at your own base, when your team are base camping the other teams base....I guess this is the same for 99.999%...hell any non iD player....how do we get on in life without iD pointing out the obvious and instructing us...

 

How soon will MGVP jump in to defend ypur honour...

 

Member
Posts: 183
Registered: ‎04-19-2013
0

Re: Competitive Warzone changes

[ Edited ]

Ok muffin that’s all good but in Killzone it has always been like that (in kz3 you could have a turret and be constantly repairing it with your repair tool... who played clan matches with engineer? Barely anyone), like I said many times here the AI kills argument is kinda irrelevant when you’re talking about a game that is about abilities and counters, and where the ultimate purpose is not to kill but instead to complete objectives. As long as everything is balanced, all abilities are as useful as each other to complete the ultimate goal of completing objectives, so there shouldn’t be a problem. If you’re using a bot, you’re not using boost; if you’re using a bot, you’re not using cloak... etc... And if you’re babysitting your bot, you’re not in other place of the map covering other area, that’s a tradeoff you’ll have to make. I don’t mind if they nerf them a bit in some way but that’s it. They already did a good job by limiting the turrets to 90º, what they need to do is limit the area of air drones so that it is a proper, useful ability being less lethal but more consistent in helping you instead of the uncompetitive random way of functioning. And I do agree that too much can be very annoying and not enjoyable to play, so it definitely needs some limited numbers. With 4 turrets and 2 air drones as the worst case scenario: in a 10v10-12v12 game, with so many players they become a small factor because they are not very likely to stay around for long without being shot by the players or even your team’s bots, and in a 4v4-5v5 game most of the roles should be allocated with other crucial classes/abilities.

What the game needs is less of a nerf in the bots (which can also make them useless) and more of tweaking of other abilities so that they become more useful and in a way are forced to be used, instead of just bots and spawns. The problem in pubs, alongside the no limit in bots, is that people have no incentive to play with spawn beacons when you can be using one of the other panoply of abilities like bots, boost, shields... That has to stop or the game will die really soon.

Member
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎04-15-2010
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Re: Competitive Warzone changes

Boost shouldnt be allowed with the increase in movement speed, theres no point in it as the game will be a lot more sped up.

The comp part of this game shouldn't be turned into a bot spamming war. Bots are a part of the game but that doesn't mean they have to be a huge factor in it. U see how a game with a lot of bots can turn into in pubs, so a great way to balance it out would to make it like the supply box. When you put a spawn up and a supply box down the spawn will blow up and vice versa. This should be applied to bots as it will force people to make a decision of bots or spawns. If it was up to me I would do away with bots completely. But teams have expressed interest in variety. I think if we were to test it out we could find out whether or not its viable and satisfy a lot of people.
Member
Posts: 524
Registered: ‎11-30-2013
0

Re: Competitive Warzone changes


brunypoo wrote:

Ok muffin that’s all good but in Killzone it has always been like that (in kz3 you could have a turret and be constantly repairing it with your repair tool... who played clan matches with engineer? Barely anyone), like I said many times here the AI kills argument is kinda irrelevant when you’re talking about a game that is about abilities and counters, and where the ultimate purpose is not to kill but instead to complete objectives. As long as everything is balanced, all abilities are as useful as each other to complete the ultimate goal of completing objectives, so there shouldn’t be a problem. If you’re using a bot, you’re not using boost; if you’re using a bot, you’re not using cloak... etc... And if you’re babysitting your bot, you’re not in other place of the map covering other area, that’s a tradeoff you’ll have to make. I don’t mind if they nerf them a bit in some way but that’s it. They already did a good job by limiting the turrets to 90º, what they need to do is limit the area of air drones so that it is a proper, useful ability being less lethal but more consistent in helping you instead of the uncompetitive random way of functioning. And I do agree that too much can be very annoying and not enjoyable to play, so it definitely needs some limited numbers. With 4 turrets and 2 air drones as the worst case scenario: in a 10v10-12v12 game, with so many players they become a small factor because they are not very likely to stay around for long without being shot by the players or even your team’s bots, and in a 4v4-5v5 game most of the roles should be allocated with other crucial classes/abilities.

What the game needs is less of a nerf in the bots (which can also make them useless) and more of tweaking of other abilities so that they become more useful and in a way are forced to be used, instead of just bots and spawns. The problem in pubs, alongside the no limit in bots, is that people have no incentive to play with spawn beacons when you can be using one of the other panoply of abilities like bots, boost, shields... That has to stop or the game will die really soon.


Thats the point the game is not balanced...

Member
Posts: 524
Registered: ‎11-30-2013
0

Re: Competitive Warzone changes


Bricktop87 wrote:

A


DehMuffinMan wrote:

Jeroen_R wrote:

Keep it coming guys, I have a general idea on your feedback and will talk to the team about the stuff you are suggesting.

I will update you guys when I know more on this.

 

Just to give you a headsup about the Automata kills, the impact they have on the battlefield is really small. 

 

It would be great if you can set up some matches so everybody can jump on to get  match going. We could put up a pin for that Warzone, but I just want to be sure that everyone is on board.

 

Also I heard  that some competitive players don't want to play due to stat tracking. Any comments on that?

 

Cheers!


Jereon i think they are small bc most of the community atleast from what ive seen just likes to run around with speed boost and use the scout class over putting down a turret correctly to get lots of kills, and also most of the players do not know how to place a turret correctly 


And as a counter argument people dont shoot them down as they are boosting or scouting if teams had dedicated people to remove them in there team they wont have much effect and again will help with shotty spam and you really think so of the very good assult players will choose bots over assult or do you really think they would be more effective? 

 

I know 4 sure you would not have tec or eggs change and i certainly would not have zka or evo to swap out. Your focusing to much on the very small amount of time that you will have the perfect setup its just not going to happen. 1 you wont have ideal amount of spawns up for long periods and 2 people will just take bots out and if they dont then its the teams fault 4 not keeping on top of them.


Everyone on our team already runs support primarily with the new changes, with turrets added it would remain the same mostly support maybe 1 assault

 

Member
Posts: 524
Registered: ‎11-30-2013
0

Re: Competitive Warzone changes


swirve wrote:

DehMuffinMan wrote:

Jeroen_R wrote:

Keep it coming guys, I have a general idea on your feedback and will talk to the team about the stuff you are suggesting.

I will update you guys when I know more on this.

 

Just to give you a headsup about the Automata kills, the impact they have on the battlefield is really small. 

 

It would be great if you can set up some matches so everybody can jump on to get  match going. We could put up a pin for that Warzone, but I just want to be sure that everyone is on board.

 

Also I heard  that some competitive players don't want to play due to stat tracking. Any comments on that?

 

Cheers!


Jereon i think they are small bc most of the community atleast from what ive seen just likes to run around with speed boost and use the scout class over putting down a turret correctly to get lots of kills, and also most of the players do not know how to place a turret correctly 


Lol....other players are idiots...and hence the stats do not reflect what iD want....maybe you the best ever and greatest team of human beings ever assembled, could make a few simple how to video's assuming players know how to watch a video on youtube without falling off a chair....though it might distract from all your mutual stroking of each others manly ego's....

 

See I seriously thought you placed turrets facing the nearest wall or throw the air droid calls at your own base, when your team are base camping the other teams base....I guess this is the same for 99.999%...hell any non iD player....how do we get on in life without iD pointing out the obvious and instructing us...

 

How soon will MGVP jump in to defend ypur honour...

 


Swirve if you go into any pub match your telling me the randoms you play with over 50% of the time know how to place a spawn or a turret correctly.... just bc its in the area of an obj does not mean it is placed correctly.... 

Member
Posts: 524
Registered: ‎11-30-2013
0

Re: Competitive Warzone changes


brunypoo wrote:

Ok muffin that’s all good but in Killzone it has always been like that (in kz3 you could have a turret and be constantly repairing it with your repair tool... who played clan matches with engineer? Barely anyone), like I said many times here the AI kills argument is kinda irrelevant when you’re talking about a game that is about abilities and counters, and where the ultimate purpose is not to kill but instead to complete objectives. As long as everything is balanced, all abilities are as useful as each other to complete the ultimate goal of completing objectives, so there shouldn’t be a problem. If you’re using a bot, you’re not using boost; if you’re using a bot, you’re not using cloak... etc... And if you’re babysitting your bot, you’re not in other place of the map covering other area, that’s a tradeoff you’ll have to make. I don’t mind if they nerf them a bit in some way but that’s it. They already did a good job by limiting the turrets to 90º, what they need to do is limit the area of air drones so that it is a proper, useful ability being less lethal but more consistent in helping you instead of the uncompetitive random way of functioning. And I do agree that too much can be very annoying and not enjoyable to play, so it definitely needs some limited numbers. With 4 turrets and 2 air drones as the worst case scenario: in a 10v10-12v12 game, with so many players they become a small factor because they are not very likely to stay around for long without being shot by the players or even your team’s bots, and in a 4v4-5v5 game most of the roles should be allocated with other crucial classes/abilities.

What the game needs is less of a nerf in the bots (which can also make them useless) and more of tweaking of other abilities so that they become more useful and in a way are forced to be used, instead of just bots and spawns. The problem in pubs, alongside the no limit in bots, is that people have no incentive to play with spawn beacons when you can be using one of the other panoply of abilities like bots, boost, shields... That has to stop or the game will die really soon.


Exactly and when we were talking to the manager yesterday about being able to limit certain things per team he said that would have to come from our developement group and would take time, i mean what do you want more a clan system or a limit on bots when they could just nerf them server side (hopefully) or not include them untill the developer has time to rebalance them...

Member
Posts: 269
Registered: ‎02-28-2009
0

Re: Competitive Warzone changes

Thoughts on the balancing of bots for competitive play (from a no-talent scrub)

 

The issue of balance is an important one and it has 2 facets.  First is finding balance compared to pubs which can often devolve into a bot-spamming nightmare. The second (the one GG is likely to be keenly aware of) is finding a balance in the competitive side of the game that will attract and maintain a robust community of players (aka fans/customers) without alienating the few but influential (for good reason) hardcore or elite gun-skilled players. I for one think that it is very thoughtful to engage the comunity the way GG has in this thread. I've read all of the comments so far, and have been thinking about the possible options.

 

I'm aware of all of the methods to counter bots, and I find them to be sufficient unless I'm attacking an objective that is surrounded by multiple bots. I'll usually get killed by a human player long before I can destroy all of them. On re-spawn, I'll go to work taking them out again, and again. The problem in my eyes isn't bot damage or bot health, it's respawn time. A team that is working together can redeploy their bots and often keep them up long enough to ensure (for example) a successful S&D defense, even if the opposing team is focusing on destroying bots.

 

My suggestion is pretty simple. Change nothing about their damage, health, missile attachment lock-on time etc... but turn the respawn time of Turrets and Air Drones up to infinity. This would make bots an important, tactical, highly-useful one-off. Every player gets one of each per match. Should they be used early on to help promote an early lead or saved until the last mission to secure victory? <--- this gentleman (and ladies) is one example of the many possible tactical decisions that teams will need to make every game. Thus, bots may have a potentially important role in competitive matches (which will help to attract and maintain a robust community of players), but will require teamwork, tactical planning, and will be impossible to spam (which will hopefully alleviate some of the valid concerns that the elite players have about their abuse).

 

This idea can be tested by all of us without GG needing to change anything.  Just find a group to scrim against, and be sure that everyone agrees to only use 1 turret and 1 air drone per person per match. I can muster up one side for such a match.

 

Thoughts?

Member
Posts: 432
Registered: ‎02-23-2014
0

Re: Competitive Warzone changes

i think an EMP grenade would be great for them to implement. Aren't they adding another EMP component with the new dlc? At any rate, I think they're aware of the turret issues, hence, what they've got coming. My only real issue with turrets in general isn't the spamming or dmg or health. It's the accuracy. If all they ever did was tone down that by 10-15% I'd be fine with it.

Member
Posts: 68
Registered: ‎01-21-2014
0

Re: Competitive Warzone changes


SugarshaK wrote:

Thoughts on the balancing of bots for competitive play (from a no-talent scrub)

 

The issue of balance is an important one and it has 2 facets.  First is finding balance compared to pubs which can often devolve into a bot-spamming nightmare. The second (the one GG is likely to be keenly aware of) is finding a balance in the competitive side of the game that will attract and maintain a robust community of players (aka fans/customers) without alienating the few but influential (for good reason) hardcore or elite gun-skilled players. I for one think that it is very thoughtful to engage the comunity the way GG has in this thread. I've read all of the comments so far, and have been thinking about the possible options.

 

I'm aware of all of the methods to counter bots, and I find them to be sufficient unless I'm attacking an objective that is surrounded by multiple bots. I'll usually get killed by a human player long before I can destroy all of them. On re-spawn, I'll go to work taking them out again, and again. The problem in my eyes isn't bot damage or bot health, it's respawn time. A team that is working together can redeploy their bots and often keep them up long enough to ensure (for example) a successful S&D defense, even if the opposing team is focusing on destroying bots.

 

My suggestion is pretty simple. Change nothing about their damage, health, missile attachment lock-on time etc... but turn the respawn time of Turrets and Air Drones up to infinity. This would make bots an important, tactical, highly-useful one-off. Every player gets one of each per match. Should they be used early on to help promote an early lead or saved until the last mission to secure victory? <--- this gentleman (and ladies) is one example of the many possible tactical decisions that teams will need to make every game. Thus, bots may have a potentially important role in competitive matches (which will help to attract and maintain a robust community of players), but will require teamwork, tactical planning, and will be impossible to spam (which will hopefully alleviate some of the valid concerns that the elite players have about their abuse).

 

This idea can be tested by all of us without GG needing to change anything.  Just find a group to scrim against, and be sure that everyone agrees to only use 1 turret and 1 air drone per person per match. I can muster up one side for such a match.

 

Thoughts?


I'm down to test this out.  In terms of all the other options that have been presented thus far, I think this one sounds the best.  It satisfies the masses by not banning anything, but it also is geared toward being competitive by limiting the use of bots to one per person.